At the second exhibition hall of this year's “G-STAR 2025,” there was a booth that JRPG fans were very pleased to see. It was the Sega Atlus booth, which showcased an art exhibition space for the Persona series and the new title “Metaphor: ReFantazio.”At the venue, there were lines for the “Persona 3 Reload” demonstrations, as well as attendees participating in a stamp rally to receive stylish merchandise from Atlus.

At GCON, which took place alongside G-STAR, a particularly meaningful session was held. This was because we could hear from two masters who made the current “Persona” series possible: Producer Katsura Hashino and Art Director Shigenori Soejima.

After the lecture, we had the opportunity to meet PD Katsura Hashino and Art Director Shigenori Soejima, who revealed that this was the first time they had met fans of the series in Korea. In the interview, find out why they decided to challenge the fantasy genre with “Metaphor: ReFantazio”' and what the two masters think about JRPG 3.0, which was discussed in the lecture.

▲ Atlus PD Katsura Hashino (left), Art Director Shigenori Soejima (right)

Q. Over the past year, “Metaphor: ReFantazio” has been nominated for RPG awards in various countries and has won several awards. Recently, it was also selected for the Japan Game Awards. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

Hashino = I feel truly honored. I always do my best to create games, and“Metaphor: ReFantazio” was no exception. I maintain a mindset of constantly striving to improve the quality of RPGs.

Q. From “Persona 3” to “Persona 5,” you have reached the pinnacle of modern juvenile RPGs set in contemporary reality. What was the decisive reason for choosing a completely new high fantasy world in the new work “Metaphor: ReFantazio” and how did this drastic change stimulate your creativity?

Hashino = It's a question that comes up in every interview, but after deciding to create a new genre, we formed a new team and proceeded to create fantasy together. During that time, we created modern dramas like 'Persona', and I felt it was important to focus on turning the player’s experience into something genuinely felt.

However, the reasons we started creating RPGs and fell in love with them were primarily fantasy RPGs. We have been developing games influenced by the power of fantasy RPGs. Thus, we sought to create RPGs while pondering, "What is the power of fantasy that attracts us?"

While playing a fantasy that differs from reality, wouldn't it be truly amazing if one could gain strength in the real world as well? With this thought in mind, we engaged in discussions with the development team and continued with the development.

Soejima = It's difficult. Since I decided to create a fantasy RPG and I also enjoy fantasy, I started working on it; however, it was certainly challenging at first.

I believe that design must have a reason behind it. If there is no reason for the design, it ultimately becomes a repetitive process of creating and erasing. In that sense, while considering what type of design is needed for Persona and other genres, it also became an opportunity to reflect on Persona. I spent a lot of time thinking about what kind of design could capture the essence of Persona when applied to Metaphor.

Q. Director Soejima, I am curious about what factors you consider important in the process of redefining the visual identity for each project.

Soejima = It's a bit abstract,It's a vague story, but I first consider the overall atmosphere of the work. I begin by determining whether the work has a warm or cool tone. After that, I focus on increasing the design resolution, thinking about how to design the costumes, and consider the details of the characters' nuances. I progress with the design step by step, considering things like what kind of stress each character experiences, etc.

Q. Director Soejima's character designs seem to transcend mere appearance, visually expressing personality and roles. When designing the main characters, how do you connect their inner and outer aspects alongside Director Hashino? If there is a particularly memorable example, please share it.

Soejima = When I think about cCharacter dDesign, I believe that both impression and appearance are important, but it's crucial to have some space for the character's background. I've designed a lot of characters with hidden complexities, and I often think about designs that leave room for the character to appear one way, but be different on the inside.

I frequently discuss concepts such as duality and ambiguity in character expression with PD Hashino, and our conversations about how to make them iconic often last indefinitely. We are striving to create characters that are ideal yet close to reality.

If you want a memorable example... Well, we are creating all the characters in the series, and each has a different episode, so it's difficult to pick just one.

Q. The simultaneous release of the console and PC versions in multiple languages has allowed overseas fans to greatly enjoy the game. It must have been challenging to support multiple languages and platforms, and I heard that the post-production period was longer than usual. What was it like in reality?

Hashino = The post-production period... It was actually too long. Still, in the past, we had to confidently introduce the game to players before the development was finished. However, now that it takes a lot of time for localization, it's a positive change that we can introduce the game in a completed state. We plan to proceed with localization more actively in the future.

Q. If the Persona series addressed real-world issues directly, then in the case of Metaphor, it carries the theme that "fantasy ais a mirror of reality." What message did you want to emphasize more compared to Persona 3~5 by building a fantasy world that reflects reality indirectly?

Hashino = The Persona series is based on the concerns of modern youth and the social issues of Japan, as it is set in Japan. On the other hand, “Metaphor” has decided to focus on the common emotional challenges that people face, regardless of where they live. Anxiety is something everyone experiences, so the game was created with this in mind.

Q. If Persona 3, 4, and 5 had a vibrant and stylish 'pop art' feel, 'Metaphor' is impressive for its oil painting style, reminiscent of classical paintings. I am curious about what the most challenging aspect was in leading this dramatic change in art style.

Soejima = There are some classic elements, but when interpreting fantasy in a modern way,finding the right level of detail was necessary. For instance, modern drama can create something stylized or deformed,because people can easily imagine it today, but in the case of fantasy, I paid significant attention to details to ensure that it could provide a direct experience for the audience.

Hashino = If that's the background you're contemplating... When viewing medieval art in an art museum, you often wonder, 'There were no cameras in the Middle Ages, so what were people thinking as they looked at realistic paintings?'

For example, the monsters in Hieronymus Bosch's (a Dutch painter) fantasy paintings would have looked very realistic to medieval people, wouldn't they? I had many discussions with Soejima about trying to recreate that feeling of being believable and unsettling, even though it’s only an imagined painting.

Q. Unlike the Persona sequels that had a solid foundation, “Metaphor” started from scratch under the name Project Re Fantasy. During the long period of collaboration, what were the moments of frustration, and what were the moments of certainty that helped you break through them?

Hashino = Now that I think about it, even though the development period was long, I feel like there wasn't a single moment of frustration. If I had to say what the breakthrough was... at first, I was trying to develop a very classic fantasy. I aimed to create a traditional fantasy game, but I did feel a bit discouraged when I wondered, “If it's such a mundane game, is there really a need to make it?”

Q. Even though the genre has changed, fans still expect an "Atlus-like" taste in your work. What was the core DNA that you thought should be carried over into “Metaphor” from the Persona series?

Hashino = In a word, I think it's “time gone by.” In Persona, it's the time that passes once you graduate from high school and never returns, and in Metaphor,it can be understood as the journey to the throne.

Q. If the Persona series has tackled themes like “death,” “truth,” and “freedom” through personal connections and bonds (communities), then “Metaphor” deals with the social emotion of 'anxiety' as its core theme. Is there a reason why this shift in theme has led to the evolution of a relationship system called “Patron”?

Hashino = I don't know if this is a good answer, but both Persona and Metaphor have communities and patron systems. It's a system achieved by building connections around you, and I believe that in human relationships, connections can be both weak and strong.

It’s hard to move forward alone, but together, you can achieve something. Since “Metaphor” is an election, we've structured the system under the name of “sponsors,” and often think that having colleagues like this can help us advance.

Q. Earlier this year, you published a kind of how-to book called "How to Make an RPG." It's not uncommon for such books to come out after a game has been successful, but in this case, it was written much earlier than the game's release. It must have been daunting to create a book at a stage where the success or failure of the game was unknown. How was it?

Hashino = I ended up regretting it quite a bit along the way. I was under so much pressure that I thought I would never accept the same offer again, and if it actually came again, I would definitely refuse it. I am simply amazed t the person I was for accepting the offer back then.

It's the same with any job, but there were times when I was overflowing with confidence and times when I was in a slump. During that process, there was a time when I received the story about writing a book. I've mentioned it in other interviews, but while writing the book, I wrote many personal reflections about the past and lamented my failures, and I remember they all ended up being cut. So, in a sense, I believe it has become a very precious book.

Q. In the book, it mentions that you received a lot of feedback after the release of “Persona 3” and identified points for reflection by coming to terms with it. If there is any point of reflection regarding “Metaphor” that you came to understand after receiving feedback, I would like to hear about it.

Hashino = Reflection point? There are many. We received good reviews, won many awards this time, and were praised for the completeness of the work; however, we feel that the high praise for the sensation of shifting from modern drama to fantasy may have contributed to this outcome. Therefore, we aim to continue striving to create more interesting works in the future.

Soejima = I am a person who can only reflect on myself, so I always think, '“Can't I do even better next time?”

Q. Director Soejima, looking at your past works, many of them are set in modern settings. What were your thoughts when you decided to create a new fantasy RPG and when you began developing the character concepts? I'm also curious which setting you enjoy more, modern or fantasy, and which one you hope to explore in the future.

Soejima = When I was in middle and high school, I loved drawing in the fantasy genre as a hobby during a time when its breadth was expanding. However, I initially began my career with modern theater. There was a joy in blending the modern theater I started as a profession with the fantasy I had loved since childhood. I always create pictures that can only be drawn at that time, so I enjoy drawing freely without being constrained by the era.

Q. In the case of “Persona 3, 4, and 5,” there is a strong perception that director Soejima draws the main characters and their Personas, while “Metaphor” features an array of talented guest artists, including Himuka Yūji. When such a diverse group of artists comes together, it's natural to expect some dissonance. How was the collaboration process? And do you think it is a method worth recommending in the future?

Soejima = There have been a lot of stimuli. In that sense, I hope there will be many opportunities for collaboration with various artists in the future.

Of course, it can be challenging to find harmony since each person's individuality is strong. While continuing to push yourself is important, I believe the process of coordinating with those who hold differing opinions is also crucial. Even if the vessel is small, the potential and impact can be amplified when multiple artists contribute. I would love to pursue this if opportunities arise in the future.

Q. The craftsmanship of “Metaphor” was truly impressive. So I wondered if Atlus always takes a long time to update the title numbering. It took 8 years from the initial unveiling of “Project Re Fantasy” in 2016 to actually playing “Metaphor. How do you view the future of the studio?

Hashino = If this is the future of the studio... I simply want to create even better RPGs. Although I don't know when it will be announced, everyone is working hard together.

Q. I asked PD Yoshida Naoki, who participated as a speaker at this year's GCON, about the future of JRPGs. "From the perspective of a Japanese developer, I just want to create the best RPG I can, and it's difficult to answer because I don't consciously think of it as a 'J'RPG," he said. Therefore, I was even more eager to ask about JRPG 3.0, which you mentioned this time. What is JRPG 3.0?

Hashino = I'm not obsessed with the JRPG framework either, but I believe the advantage of JRPGs is their story-driven form of play. I don't want to lose that format. Of course, while I am leading the game with a strong narrative, I also recognize that past JRPGs have been criticized for their lack of freedom and immersion.

I believe that JRPG 3.0 refers to building on the strengths of earlier JRPGs while designing gameplay to be more convenient for players.

Q. Regarding the name Studio Zero, according to the tarot card setting often borrowed from Persona, 0 is The Fool, and the card image of a man carrying a bundle and accompanied by a dog was also used as the concept art for the protagonist of Metaphor. The form remains in the corner of the studio logo. Why did you choose this name?

Hashino = Even though I'm an old man now, I believe we should never lose our original intention. I want to be 'right' in a good way. Don't be stubborn about 'this is how it should be, this is good,' always question myself. In that sense, I believe that being naive is to be a fool.

▲ "I believe we should always maintain our initial intentions. I want to be 'right' in a positive way."

Q. Atlus's games are now achieving great success worldwide. How do the reactions of global fans influence your creative process? I would also like to hear about your vision for the future.

Hashino = Thank you for saying that we have achieved great success. So far, we have been creating games with the thought, "I hope people who enjoy JRPGs will be happy," but now we are making games with the thought, “Wouldn’t it be nice if RPG fans in general could enjoy this as well?”

We want to attract more global fans and enhance the tempo and immersion. Since Atlus games take a long time to complete, we also ponder whether a long-form narrative is always necessary to resonate. We are continuously exploring ways to make the game more enjoyable for a wider audience without changing the aspects we consider important.

Soejima = Since I am a painter, I have always imagined while working, 'Which people will like my paintings?'

Up until now, I've been imagining Japanese players, but after Persona 5, I've been able to widen my perspective to consider what global users might like about my drawings. I believe that's the biggest change.

Q. Finally, please say something to the fans of Atlus games in Korea.

Hashino = I've heard that there are many players who love our games,and it was delightful to meet you all for the first time in Korea. There are many works that inspire people's relationships and connections in Korean dramas and movies. I will work harder to create works that can receive enthusiastic support from Korean fans.

Soejima = After the lecture, I was able to briefly meet several attendees and it was really nice to see their actual faces, as I imagined the faces of those who are happy when drawing pictures or illustrations.

I've seen not only people but also many villages and streets, allowing me to vividly imagine what kind of lives they lead, the atmosphere they live in and what kinds of food they eat. This has been a valuable experience from a creative perspective, and I would like to utilize these experiences to present even better works.

This article was translated from the original that appeared on INVEN.